Shadows Among Us: Unveiling the Dark Triad in Relationships

0:00 Welcome back to the women's mental health podcast. I'm randy. I'm And I'm Jess. And we are two licensed psychotherapists, and this is a safe space where we talk about mental health, well being, and strategies for coping with life's challenges. And how all of this is normal, and you are not alone. Today, we're diving into a complex and somewhat unsettling topic, the dark triad. The dark triad refers to three specific personality traits. Narcissism, and this is the one I mess up all the time, Machiavellianism, and psychopathy. You can find us and more resources on womensmentalhealthpodcast. com. We have new and exciting episodes coming up.

0:40 So be sure to follow us. If you're following us on Apple, hit plus follow at the top on the podcast. If you're following us on Spotify, hit follow on the, Podcast show button and then you can hit the bell to be notified when we have a new episode. Have you ever had these thoughts? What is the dark triad? How can the dark triad affect relationships? Can someone have all three of these dark triad traits? God, that would be scary. But possible. Yeah, right? How do dark triad traits develop? Is it possible to improve or manage Dark triad traits. How can I protect myself from being manipulated by someone who has these traits?

1:23 Ooh, that's a good one. Can the dark triad traits be identified easily? Are dark triad traits common? And how does understanding the dark triad empower me? What should I do if I recognize these traits in a close relationship? Okay, again the dark triad refers to three specific personality traits. Narcissism, Machiavellianism, did I say that right? And Psychopathy. These traits are called the dark triad because they share certain malicious qualities, including a lack of empathy, being manipulative, and disregard for the well being of others. So let's break down these traits, though, because we've said three traits. So narcissism involves what we would call grandiosity.

2:07 The sense of self entitlement, a need for admiration narcissists often have an inflated sense of how important they are, and a really deep need for excessive attention and admiration. Yeah, we would say they have a huge ego. More than that. And Machiavellian Machiavellianism is characterized by manipulation and exploitation of others. So really it's a whole disregard for morality and a focus on self interest and. a lot of deception and pathological lying. People with high levels of this trait are very strategic and cunning and often use manipulation to achieve goals.

2:51 Sounds really scary. psychopathy, though, is marked by persistent anti social behavior, which can be impulsivity, selfishness, being callous, lack of remorse. Psychopaths can be charming and manipulative, but lack empathy and often involved in criminal or risky behaviors. Kind of like, think Dexter. Yeah, so what are some well known psychopaths? So Ted Bundy, Because he was so charming and like handsome. Oh, he was the great guy next door. store. People couldn't believe he had people in his freezer. Jeffrey Dahmer. Or maybe it was Dahmer that had him in the freezer. Charles Manson. They all admitted these qualities of being Very charming, but manipulative, and having no empathy for what they were doing.

3:41 So why are these all three traits coming together called the Dark Triad? Well, the term was coined to highlight the irregular nature of these three traits and their association with these adverse states. horrible, misguided behaviors, and they are called dark because they have a negative impact on others and are often linked to harmful outcomes for people in their relationships. Now how does the dark triad really affect us as women, mental health? Because all the people you just named, honestly, were men. You look up a lot of the psychopaths, they're men. We were doing our research and not a lot of women came up at first.

4:24 So interacting with these individuals who exhibit these traits can be so extremely damaging for us. Relationships with these individuals can lead to not only emotional abuse, but there's manipulation and seriously impacts your self esteem. Yeah. when I researched this, I found that the top 20, well known psychopaths, only two of them are women. The rest are men. So that's heavily weighs in the male dominance for, these psychopathy traits. And women who are in relationships or work environments with people with these traits can experience anxiety, depression post traumatic stress disorder because when you are constantly being manipulated and then have lacking any type of empathy for the way that they're making you feel, it creates such a toxic circle and it's really difficult to escape that once you're in some type of relationship with this person, whether it's a work boss or a boyfriend or a parent, yeah, it pulls you into a web.

5:29 It does. Ideally, we really want to raise awareness for this and help people understand how to recognize some of these signs early. Because if you can recognize this, then you can be like, Ooh, red flag, red flag, I'm out. Whether that's a relationship or it's something, a workplace. that way you don't get sucked in. Because once you're sucked in, it's really hard to get out. Cause remember, you They're very charming. This is how a lot of cults start. Yes. Because you are brainwashed to believing this person. It's like the ultimate gaslighting when all these things come together. So we're going to talk about some strategies for dealing with individuals who exhibit these dark triad traits. So what are some things and strategies that we can do?

6:12 The first thing is always set your boundaries. Very clearly defined boundaries about what behaviors are acceptable, what are unacceptable, and stick to your boundaries because if you're going to be consistent, that is going to be the key to keep yourself safe. Remember, boundaries tell others how you want to be treated. Exactly, and people that exhibit these traits usually look for people they know that they can manipulate, that don't have boundaries, that they know they can push their boundaries, that they can push through and control them. So when you learn how to set your boundaries and to set your self worth, it keeps you going.

6:53 More toxic people away from you. Another one is limit interactions. So if you are noticing these traits in somebody that you're around, minimize your exposure to this person, and that can help really reduce the emotional toil it takes on you. And also they don't have exposure to you, so they can't manipulate you if you're not around them. Exactly. You really want to make sure, even if that's on the news, or on your social media, if there's somebody there that is not going to accept boundaries or pushes against your beliefs, don't follow them. Don't listen to them, exactly. And this can come in, too, with religion If you feel, that you are being manipulated by a religious figure or a church, you can also set boundaries with that.

7:42 I've done that, too. seek support. Talk to trusted friends. Talk to trusted family members. Talk to a therapist about your experience. When you have somebody give their perspective from the outside looking in, it can really validate what you're feeling and what you're going through. And they can offer you advice that you might not be able to see. Exactly. It can even be like, does this sound normal? Does this sound like it's okay? Or, what would you do in this situation? Or how would you handle this? Yeah. Because sometimes when we get perspective from other people outside, they can go, yeah, that's okay. That's not okay. Or that's weird. That sounds odd.

8:24 And so that is how you start to process some of this. The other thing is to educate yourself. Again, as we have always said, knowledge is power. When you can understand what these traits are, You can better navigate interactions to protect yourself and your mental health. That also comes in with self care. So I know that this is a huge like coin term and you see it all over social media But we've talked about it in the past and go back and listen to those podcasts to self care isn't about, bougie buying the latest things. It's about really prioritizing your wellbeing, prioritizing your mental health, giving yourself space to grow and. feel and doing things that bring you immense joy.

9:06 So engaging in these activities that really put you first help promote your mental and physical help. It is. And it's so important to normalize the conversation around this dark triad. When we were researching it, I was like, what is that? It's not something we normally talk about in mental health. And I was thinking it's probably what we used to call cluster B. Different personality disorders. And so this is this is a way for people to start researching this because we are seeing more of this and so I don't want women to feel ashamed or Embarrassed to admit that they're being manipulated or mistreated so let's be honest. Most of us have been manipulated and mistreated, emotionally abused, or physically abused in some way as women.

9:53 Or sexually assaulted. Exactly. All these things, unfortunately, come into play for us as women, and they're things that we need to learn how to break free from. And without Putting ourself first, putting our boundaries, seeking support and educating ourselves. We're never going to break free from these things that have held us captive for generations. Exactly. And if we don't normalize this with people and with ourselves, our friend group, we're not going to be able to help other people. younger generation so we can break that generational trauma that has been forced down on us. Oh, okay. There's my soapbox. I'll get off my soapbox.

10:33 Well, and I really feel too that we do carry generational trauma in our DNA. From the research that, I've done, it's been proven scientifically that we do carry trauma in our bodies. If you know someone who is dealing with these traits or you are experiencing them themselves, remember it is not your fault. You are not to blame. You deserve to be treated with respect and kindness. I want everybody to say that out loud right now. I deserve to be treated with respect and kindness. Okay. So let's dive in a little bit more and answer our questions on the topic. As we're diving into these questions, we talked about what the dark triad is and how it can affect relationships, but let's talk about, can someone have all three, of these traits, Randi?

11:21 Okay. Okay. Yes, it's possible, though the intensity of each trait can vary from person to person. And so while the dark triad isn't diagnosable narcissism and psychopathy is. And so those are things that can definitely be diagnosed and you can find those traits, but with everything in mental health, it varies from person to person. So what person A might have, In exhibit traits, person B might not. So it's good to be aware of all these traits, and I will break them down on our website, womensmentalhealthpodcast. com. So how do these dark triad traits develop? Research was showing that there is a really complex interplay of genetics and environment.

12:04 While some of these individuals may be predisposed to these traits their experiences and upbringing can also play a significant role. The insight encourages compassion both for those struggling with these traits and for ourselves as we deal with the fallout. So it almost feels like in some way, having empathy, which is weird to say, let's have empathy for somebody who has all three traits because it may not be their fault, but. At the same time, they're scary traits. Yeah, and you need to hold people accountable. I feel like if some of these people who are targeted by some of these psychopaths and narcissisms, like that we've seen in history, they saw the red flags and they ignored them.

12:46 And they've always said in interviews if I had just stood up or said something or gone to somebody, I could have prevented these other people from being hurt. hold people, accountable. If they show you who they are, pay attention because their actions speak louder than their words. the research, shows it's about maybe like 20 percent genetic, but 80 percent environment. So there is some control over how they are exposed to things. Yes, maybe they were exposed to things that were horrific but there's always a way to get yourself help as well. that's the next thing is how are people, Randy, supposed to improve, or is it even possible to improve someone that has these traits?

13:33 It's hard because people that have these traits usually lack. Self awareness, or they just don't care because they have no empathy. So really they need to work with a psychiatrist and a psychotherapist to have. more self awareness, to develop those skills. You can develop skills if you are lacking them. If you have not been in an environment that has allowed you to flourish and understand yourself, you can always take time to learn about yourself. Even if you don't think that you need it because you might not be self aware, Try it and see what you learn. I've worked with people where I'm like, you were never taught empathy.

14:15 You were never taught how to have compassion. You were never taught how to, self regulate your emotions. And so it's never too late to learn, especially if you have children so you can show them. We do lack a lot of empathy. In our society, because we live in a very fast paced world, it's all done on social media and we don't have a lot of face to face contact and so we just don't feel that, care. About anybody, and so sometimes we do need to learn how to be more empathetic towards others. How do we protect ourselves from being manipulated by somebody with these traits? Like we talked about, setting your boundaries is key. Trusting your instincts, if those red flags are waving.

14:56 And, if something feels off, It usually is. Trust your gut. I tell mamas all the time. Trust your mama gut. If your gut is telling you something, don't ignore it because it is there for a reason. Lean into your intuition. Seek support from friends and family. Seek support from a mental health profession that can help you reinforce your boundaries and your self worth and discuss strategies that can protect you, that can, Secure your emotional well being. If you need to talk about what boundaries look like, talk about that. If you need to talk about what self care looks like, talk about that. There is no harm in doing those things to protect yourself.

15:38 Find somewhere where it's safe and that you feel safe. So can the dark triad traits be identified easily? See now, this is the problem is not really it's really hard because the charm and charisma that they show Often will mask the deeper issues. Most of these people are extremely charming they're Extremely manipulative and they don't show up on the second date or the second meeting and show you who they are No, it could be years later this. Yeah, this is a game that they're playing They play the long game and they are the only one Ultimate maskers. They have learned to act like. Normal.

16:18 Caring. Charming. Caring. Empathetic. But it's a game to them. They really do not possess those qualities. And just look at their actions because actions really do speak louder than what they're saying. So just remember that if it isn't jiving and you're like, wait, this doesn't make sense. What they're saying and what they're doing is not congruent. They don't equal each other. Then take a look at that. All right, so Randi, how common are these dark triad traits? They're more common than we think because, a lot of people exhibit narcissistic behavior and that means you could have a trait of that but not have narcissistic personality disorder.

17:00 So they might not be diagnosable but they might exhibit some of these traits. Really pay attention. I think the key things are to pay attention to the manipulation, pay attention to the lack of empathy. if their words and their actions are not the same, those are the things we should be looking at whether or not they're part of this dark triad or if they are just, this is part of who they are. Take a look at it because when you start to understand these traits and navigate these interactions and you can see that your boundaries are not being respected or that your boundaries are being pushed, that's how you're going to be able to help. Protect yourself, right?

17:42 And that's why we're talking about how does understanding this empower me because like we said knowledge is power When you understand the traits you're able to navigate interactions and relationships more wisely and then you're able to protect your mental health, your physical health, and your emotional well being. You become empowered through education. So what should you do if you recognize these traits in a close relationship? You mean besides like drop and run? What is that? Stop, drop, and roll? Like just take off? Yeah, like I'm out. I gotta go. Just cut, ghost. Right, But really, I Approach it with care because if you walk up to somebody and say you're being narcissistic a Narcissistic person does not like that and that is not gonna go well Well, and if it's you have a relationship with somebody that's in a position of power over you like a parent or a boss like How you can't just cut and run so you need to learn how to navigate it or even a spouse a lot of people their spouses still have power over them Oh, yeah hundred percent and whether that's gonna be financial or they don't want to Split the kids and so a lot of times that power feels very powerless.

18:55 Again, when you start working with your friends, you start working with your mental health provider on really addressing the situation to gain the self esteem that you're going to need to either manage Walk away, change, or leave this relationship. You have got to feel good because somebody who has these three traits, they are going to beat down on your self esteem and make you feel worthless. understanding these challenges like the dark triad is not about casting judgment, but it's about empowering ourselves with knowledge, learning to set healthy boundaries and cultivating your wellbeing. remember, navigating tough waters teaches us about our strength and that the beauty of reaching calmer shores and that we get to grow as individuals.

19:44 Thanks for tuning in and remember, knowledge and support are crucial in protecting your mental health. Stay tuned for our next episode and always take care of yourself.